Ep #18: Unlocking ROI with Biological Nitrogen with Allen Parrish & Landon Larkin
How can biological nitrogen reshape the future of farming? In this episode of The Land Ledger, host Brian Kearney and Landon Larkin sit down with Allen Parrish of Pivot Bio to explore the growing role of biological nitrogen in modern agriculture. Allen shares how Pivot Bio’s technology is helping growers optimize nitrogen management—not just to boost yields, but to improve ROI, field efficiency, and long-term sustainability.
Listen in as he explains how biological nitrogen supports crop uniformity and meets critical post-tassel nitrogen demands, with measurable results backed by ear and yield checks. The conversation also dives into key agronomic factors like nitrogen use efficiency, weather variability, and soil health—all central to the shift away from synthetic fertilizers. From field trials to hands-on agronomic support, you'll learn how Pivot Bio is helping growers build confidence in sustainable, high-performance nitrogen strategies tailored for today’s competitive ag landscape.
Listen to the Full Episode:
What You’ll Hear About in This Episode:
Biological nitrogen and its role in agriculture.
How Pivot Bio’s technology works.
Pivot Bio’s solution to post-tassel nitrogen demand.
The cost-saving benefits of biological nitrogen.
How Pivot Bio’s technology adapts to different environmental factors.
The positive impact of biological nitrogen on soil health.
Challenges farmers face when adopting new technologies.
Pivot Bio’s vision for the future of agriculture.
Ideas Worth Sharing:
“ Most growers have one nitrogen program, but all your hybrids have different yield potentials. So … that first year, we help you kind of put it on a hybrid that is, to me, going to have a higher yield potential. So it's going to make better use of a higher nitrogen rate if you're throwing this on top.” - Allen Parrish
“My goal for you as an agronomist is that we work together and build the reputation and the trust with you over time, and help you see that.” - Allen Parrish
“ It's just sitting down really with each grower one-on-one, talking with them, and finding out what their plan is.” - Allen Parrish
Resources:
Landon Larkin: LinkedIn
Tractor Wars: John Deere, Henry Ford, International Harvester, and the Birth of Modern Agriculture by Neil Dahlstrom
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Read the Transcript:
Allen Parrish: So these are naturally creating in the soil, and all they did was simply ramp up their natural nitrogen fixing capability and then also blind them to the natural nitrogen in your soil, 'cause obviously in the corn field, we're gonna over-fertilize. So now these microbes, we've kind of tricked them into just making more nitrogen than they can produce and consume themselves, which is them feeding that crop.
Welcome to The Land Ledger podcast, where investing in farmland meets the future of finance. I’m your host, Brian Kearney, here to guide you through the untapped potential of farmland as an asset.
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Brian Kearney: Today on the show, I've actually got two guests. We have Landon Larkin, one of our team out of Mendota, Illinois, and we have Allen Parrish from Pivot Bio. And we're gonna dive a little bit into Allen's background, a little bit about Pivot Bio, and the reason Landon is here as well is so he can ask questions I don't know to ask. So it'll be fun. I think we'll do more of these down the road. But Allen, Landon, welcome to the show.
Allen Parrish: Thank you for having me.
Landon Larkin: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Brian Kearney: Yeah, no. Let's, yeah, Allen, let's dive in a little bit to your background. Where'd you grow up? How'd you get into this industry? And we'll kinda work our way from there.
Allen Parrish: Sure. So I grew up in West Illinois over by Monmouth. Growing up, farm family, but farming eventually kind of went away, but still worked at Monsanto pollinating corn and doing some of those ag jobs as a kid, then once I graduated school, 9/11 happened my senior year. So, went into the army, did ROTC at the U of I, where I got my bachelor's degree.
Spent three years in the Army. And then when I got out, I was like, “Well, what do I want to do?” So, didn't know I wanted to–knew I definitely didn't wanna work in a city, so I was like, “Well, getting back into ag sounds like the only option.” And then, so I got hired on as a technician at the U of I, running research for biofuel research.
And actually, that was a pretty interesting time 'cause we had actually had a working group between a collaboration with BP, the University of Illinois, and then U Berkeley, where they were doing the biotech side of things. And so I know early on in that stage, they were looking at trying to figure out how do we get corn to make its own nitrogen, which then over the years passed, obviously biofuels didn't come to fruition, at least, to the degree we were expecting.
Moved, transitioned to working for a smaller CGEN X company running nursery, just kind of getting in my hands, kind of reoriented back to working with corn. And then, eventually, the job to run the research farms at the U of I opened up. Applied for that, ran 'em for three years during the COVID years.
And then that's when kind of Pivot Bio hit the scene with their first product proven. And so I was like, “Someone kind of figured this out.” So I was keeping my eye on it, on the company. And then they came out with proven 40, and then I was like, “You know what, I think it'd be a good time to transition back into the private sector and I think where I just tend to thrive more, my natural curiosity and those types of things just being back out in the field rather than managing things,” was, to me, more appealing at the time too.
So, and the last three years been running field checks with growers, with Pivot, and really seeing something new that we can start to understand about how to really unlock how nitrogen works because now we have a source like ours that we can measure in the field and then start to pick apart.
Because corn is a very showy plant commodity in the way it grows. And so every little thing that it influences you can start to see. And so that's kind of what–is getting to be really, really fun with Pivot as we're growing and helping farmers understand that stuff.
Brian Kearney: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. I want to get to that in a second, but let's circle back to working at U of I during the COVID years. That had to be interesting, to say the least. Tell me a little bit about that and running the research farm. That'd be a cool job.
Allen Parrish: Yeah, it was a lot fun. Definitely gotta work with the marrow plots, which again, one of those nitrogen studies that's the oldest continuous corn plots in the world, and when you've stepped onto that soil, I mean, you can feel the treatments in your feet. The three different treatments where you have the three crop rotation, the corn soil rotation, continuous corn.
And then right before I left, they were pulling big soil cores out of there, and you could see visually that a horizon, just how thick and deep they were based off of the treatment. So that's one really fun stuff I got to do there, and then just working with the team, a really talented group of people and researchers at Illinois.
But obviously through COVID, too, you kind of got restricted on obviously the chances to engage with the farmer networks. We were trying to get some of that stuff going. 2019 had a really good agronomy day meeting there, out there where we hosted a bunch of people, and then actually I picked up learning how to video edit it during COVID, just how do you reach people? And that's, to me–did some of that stuff. It's a lot more time-consuming than you can realize, but to me, that was really fun to do. Actually ran hemp trials for grain and fiber. That kind of blew up, if you remember, I think in 2020, something like that. So, ran hemp trials on grain and fiber and all those types of things because corn and soybeans are obviously your king and queen crops. But as we run into different pests and crop resistance and all these different things. Diversification's a really key component of that.
So are these commodities even worth looking at? And how do you place and grow them out? So, and then obviously working with, obviously, all the other researchers helping them run their own work, and all those types of things. And so yeah, there's a lot of interesting work going on there.
And usually you don't ever hear about even a drop of what's going on just 'cause there's just so much so.
Brian Kearney: Right. Yeah, no, that, that makes sense. And for everyone listening, don't try to put your feet on the plots at the University of Illinois. That is a very quick way to get in a lot of trouble. They do not mess around. So talk to Allen or someone like him if you wanna look at 'em.
Allen Parrish: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I would stop tour groups from time to time. I was out there working, putting fertilizer down or planting or just taking pictures, and I'd hear the tour groups state, like, “Oh, there's corn here in the middle of the field.” And then just walk right by.
And after hearing that, like, because they're on like a five-minute rotation, you'd stop, I eventually was like, you know what, I gotta stop and educate a few people on these and just how truly unique they are. And we're still learning. You can still learn off of 'em. And long-term studies are very difficult to pull off and to maintain over time. So it's really cool to see how the University of Illinois has kept that going and try to maintain them. You don't throw shade on the corn, right?
Brian Kearney: Right. That's one of my favorite U of I stories is the undergrad library, which now I've heard is just archives. That's sad. I didn't study a whole lot in college, but the people who did told me the UGL was the place to study. But for people not from the University of Illinois, the largest undergrad library was actually built down. It didn't go up because if they built a four-story library, it would've put shade on the corn, and they couldn't do that. So instead, they built straight down, which is just a super cool story. Kind of shows the ag roots of the university pretty well.
Allen Parrish: It's truly, yeah, there's a lot of neat things that have happened there, but yeah, those might be another podcast.
Brian Kearney: Yeah. Yeah. No, that, for sure. I'd love to dive into some of that. Yeah, let's pivot, pun intended, a little bit to your change from the University of Illinois to pivot bio. What made that transition, and tell me a little bit about why you would leave a–startups are risky, and university job is not risky at all. So I'd love to hear kind of how you went through that decision matrix in your head.
Allen Parrish: I was always looking, as a research farm director, like what new technology is gonna happen next, and this is something, I mean, experts of today tend to miss the next new change and shift that's gonna happen. And again, like I said, I was watching PROVEN hit the market with a 25-pound product, and that was like, “Ah, okay, 25 pounds is, it's something, but it's not the end-all be-all.”
So then they hit the PROVEN 40 came out. And then as I started to see some of the other really, I would say big names in ag, joining the company, these weren't people who would stake their reputation on something like this. And then obviously from obviously a decade ago working in biofuels and knowing people were working on this, it was just kind of a nice way to transition into, to me, that entrepreneurial side of me where, the university does a lot of great research, but it can kind of stymie some of those entrepreneurial ideas, and to some degree.
And that's, to me, where it's just getting a little work life balance back to, as kids were getting older and busier, to me it just made sense to move over this and get back out in the field where I got a lot more time working with growers and learning and getting my feet dirty. So, hands dirty.
Brian Kearney: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Landon, what questions do you have? You can, I'll let you take over. I've been hogging the conversation.
Landon Larkin: No. Yeah, I have a ton of questions because I've never really been exposed to Pivot Bio. So as a farmer, like I kind of want to dive into the economics, how it works. And then at the end, maybe tell us a little bit about the products themselves. I guess for just like for people that don't know about Pivot Bio, can you give us the 30-second sales pitch about a couple of the flagship products?
Allen Parrish: Sure. So, what our founders did is they used the gene editing technology to gene edit our microbes. So these are naturally current in the soil, and all they did was simply ramp up their natural nitrogen fixing capability, and then also blind them to the natural nitrogen in your soil. Because, obviously, in a corn field we're gonna over-fertilize.
So now these microbes, we've kind of tricked them into just making more nitrogen than they can produce and consume themselves, which is them feeding that crop. And by having them gene-edited and not shutting off, that allows us to really see this product perform out in the field during the year.
And that's something we can measure, usually through June, and that vegetative phase, and this is the other side of it, our microbes create a symbiotic relationship with corn, kind of like your soybean, right? But we don't form nodules and stuff like that, but there's those visual cues out there you can pick up and see just 'cause nitrogen's a very showy commodity for corn. So, but yeah, so it's fun seeing it working. And, but you know, the other thing too is, obviously, with a nitrogen product, we want you to think about your whole nitrogen strategy.
Then how do you incorporate Pivot to get the most efficiency out of not just our product, but all the products you're applying? 'Cause we can only supply 20% of your nitrogen program. So, how do we make better use of that than the rest of the 80%, with it?
Landon Larkin: That is gonna be my next question. What is your recommendations for–are you putting it on with the planner? Is it split applying? Are there things that you have to worry about in terms of keeping the microbes alive in storage? Like as a farmer, when it gets delivered to my shop, what do I have to worry about? What are the next steps?
Allen Parrish: Yes, so we have PROVEN 40, which is for corn, and then we have return, which is for wheat. And then we have actually, we're launched in, CERT-N and cotton, not something big in Illinois. And then the methods for application, we first started out with liquid in furrow, and then we've added in a on-seed application.
So we have reps with treaters, and they just do a box-to-box transfer to that. To me, the value of, depending on how you want to operate, to me, they both work just fine. For you, it's really figuring out what makes the most sense for you. Obviously, if you're liquid in furrow. There's the smaller 40-acre increments of the liquid in furrow product versus the on-seed, which is essentially a big, your two box to box transfer.
And then compatibility is one thing, and this goes for not just our microbes, but anybody's microbes. You gotta watch typically the liquid in furrow, what you tank mix with it versus the on seed. They're already on the seed, they're gonna go on the ground, and then whatever thrown in furrows either gonna be applied before or after, so the whole seed isn't getting doused with something that will probably kill our microbe so.
Landon Larkin: Yeah, that was gonna be kind of my next question is like when you go to manage your NPK program, is there things that you can't mix with? Is there things that you wanna mix with that can maybe boost the results of your microbes? Can you talk a little bit about maybe some synergies between other products?
Allen Parrish: So actually, the University of Illinois did some different things, with Dr. Belos' lab doing some, and our microbes are waiting in the soil for that seed to germinate. So, we have some, I know we've done some work with some proprietary sugar stuff.
That's not something I work a ton with. It's more of the compatibility side of thing. I know guys like really like using humic acids or something like that. But at the end of the day, to me, the biggest thing is we gotta get 'em tested. And we have a lab set up in St. Louis that we can run different mixes and combinations to make those things work out.
And then there's different things like the heavy metals that are, to me, naturally antimicrobial in nature, copper and zinc, and those types of things. I mean, there's reason our pipes are copper in our houses, right? So, those things you just kind of gotta watch out for, and sometimes the way they're chelated or formulated, the quantities, and how many things you mix together. So that's for the liquid and furrow. Again, for the on-seed, it's not an issue.
Landon Larkin: Awesome. And then yeah, you talked about the research aspect of it. Could you talk a little bit more about maybe some of the trials that has gotten Pivot Bio so much publicity? Maybe some of the, how do you prove your product to farmers that don't know about it? Get into that a little bit.
Allen Parrish: Yeah, so I run these tests all summer long. I just have a grower that runs a side by side, a treated, untreated, the same hybrid. Usually, I like to have them run some sort of replacement zone out there where they have, can then do a split planter and plant both treatments through, so then we can evaluate–they're treated and untreated, at the full rate, and then at a reduced or replacement rate of nitrogen. And then that lets us then evaluate not just one nitrogen program, but really four in combination. And usually, I want to try to get the nitrogen sources that are, to me, the least efficient or the highest level of loss, or the most redundant with what when we're working too.
So, and this is, to me, something, fall anhydrous, all the research shows it has a high nitrogen loss rate. But the thing is, anhydrous does work. I mean, guys have been using it for decades now. So, but to me, every year it can work a little bit differently depending on how wet or dry it turns out to be.
And that's the same thing. Pre-plant nitrogen to me is one of those ones where, yeah, you started earlier in the year. But a stone on top, you don't have a ton of plants right there, that soil biology in the top six inches is the most active. So it, to me, gets kind of caught in a mineralization loop.
And so it's not always freely available to that crop. And then of course, you're, to me, you're two by two systems, and Y drop systems are just gonna be naturally more efficient as you put nitrogen closer and closer to when you have an actual plant to use it. It's just like your lawn, you're gonna fertilize it in the spring and not over the winter, right? So, those types of things. So just kind of then, and then figuring out to me logistically, how does this product play into it. If you're having to spray a bunch of gallons in the spring or you run it in at your planter, can you speed up those operations?
Is there a value you place on that? And those types of things. So it's just sitting down really with each grower one-on-one, talking with them, finding out what their plan is. And to me, even, I even try to get them to understand, “Hey, what hybrids are you even using and stacking this with?”
Most growers have one nitrogen program, but all your hybrids have different yield potentials. So how do then that first year we help you kind of put it on a hybrid that is, to me, gonna be, have a higher yield potential. So it's gonna make better use of a higher nitrogen rate if you're throwing this on top.
Those types of things, there's, to me, nitrogen isn't a linear, one pound in, one bushel out type of curve. There's a curve to it, right? So, how do we manage that nitrogen curve effectively with you so you get the confidence to then start to integrate it into your system more effectively over time?
Landon Larkin: I like some of the things you said there. You talked about yield and the use of nitrogen. So this is gonna be the question that I ask you. What is the yield? Is there a yield drag, if any, or yield boost, if any, with the product, or how do you guys look at it from a yield standpoint?
Allen Parrish: So I look at yield as the culmination of everything you've done that year. I mean, it's not just what PROVEN’s doing, 'cause I know we're working during that vegetative side of crop growth. So to me, we're gonna help maximize the yield potential out there because we're gonna be, and I've done this out measuring ear checks.
We're gonna help maximize the rows around on that ear and the length on that ear. Now, the next question is, can we make those kernels heavier? Which, to me, that all happens post tassel. And these modern hybrids consume more than 50%, especially in that, plus a 250-bushel plus range, more than 50% of the nitrogen is consumed post-tassels.
So, to me, it's the question of what nitrogen sources are you relying on at the end of the season to make your kernels heavier? If you, knowing you've got the potential out there with Pivot, how do we make 'em heavier? And this is to me, where, by doing all those ear checks too, I start to understand a little bit more of what does each source do. 'Cause actually, your soils are generating a lot of that nitrogen, and you'd be surprised at how much nitrogen your soils. And if you've ever run a zero-nitrogen plot, and I think this is something for any grower to do, just do a 500-foot check strip, out there with zero nitrogen once. That's something else in the moral plots taught me, zero nitrogen is, you'd be surprised. You think after some years, I've seen guys get 200 bushels off, zero nitrogen, typically, probably a hundred twenty-five, a hundred fifty is probably more of a normal year.
But you know, so then if you're putting 200 pounds out there to get really another 125 bushels, what's the NUE? And so, how do you understand then? Okay, I know I've got so much nitrogen here from my soils, and each field is gonna be different too. Your soils with higher soil organic matter have more mineralization potential than your lower ones, right? But then also, your weather plays a factor into that. to me, as we get into those hot, dry months, that actually kind of helps build the potential for mineralization, but you gotta have the rain. This is something real, also really neat doing this too, and then getting yield data back.
You're not gonna grow a crop without any rain. And I had an ag explorer agronomist mention plants drink their fertility, they don't eat it, so this is, to me, now I'm starting, how do we then understand how critical water is and water management down the road.
That's probably a whole nother topic too, Brian, if you need another podcast, talk about that with somebody else. But to me, then managing, and seeing that, 'cause it's been, the last three years we've had with our growing seasons, especially in Eastern Champagne or Eastern Illinois here, central.
We had 2022 when I started out super dry, and then turned really wet during Greenfield. I didn't think guys were gonna get 200 bushel corn. It was so bad, tip back and all this, the ear looks on it—talking to the guys of the ears, like they made over 200 bushels and the corn stayed green forever that year.
And then 2023 just stayed dry the whole entire time. And you could see, we do our measurements in June and July, you can see Pivot working, especially in the dry years, ‘cause our microbes are right on the roots. They're given that plant a daily dose of nitrogen, it's not one lump sum.
And so we can measure and see that response, but then at the end of the season, if you don't have any drain to really drive that yield difference, really stop cannibalization is about the only difference that you have. And so you can see it out there working and giving you some yield, versus then I would say this past year we had a lot of rain in the early part of the year, but then really great growing conditions the rest of the year.
And you saw mineralization off the charts in a lot of parts of the state. So, nitrogen wasn't your limiting factor. So that's, to me, where helping you understand the nitrogen sources that you are using, how effective are they, and then helping you guide and position that in. So you're, to me, you're allowing for a nice relaying effect.
The last thing you wanna do is on, it's track season right now, right? So, if you have a four-man relay, you don't want that first run in three-quarters of the race, and then the last three runners just finishing it out. To me, you wanna balance that out so you can start strong, finish strong, on that yield side of things.
Brian Kearney: Yeah, that makes sense. And I'll jump in, again, this is maybe, I was telling Landon and Allen before the show, I have very little agronomy background. Actually, the hardest class I took at U of I was my only class that had any agronomy in it. I actually thought I was gonna fail it. I didn't, but I thought so.
But I guess listening to all this, it kinda makes sense. But when I think about our farmer clients, what they're gonna be thinking through all of that. They're like, “Well, yeah, of course. Like that's true, but the only way I'm gonna buy a product is if I think having said all of that, it's still either going to cut down my costs or increase my yield.”
So is this like, is there one area that's fits in more? Is it a little bit of both? And then is there any research like showing if this all goes well, you'll get, I don't know, six bushel an acre, 10 bushel, like, is there anything like that out there?
Allen Parrish: I mean, I've got a ton of data that I, each individual I grow, I work with, I kind of do a case study with them. I'll go out and do that summer nitrogen check, show them, give them the confidence that Pivot's working. And then I'll come back, do those ear checks again to see, okay, how is Pivot influencing this particular hybrid?
And then I'll try to get their yield debt at the end of the season, and then break that down, and it can, yield responses can vary a lot. 'Cause like I said, yield is a culmination of everything you do. If the grower has high yield potential when I do my ear checks, but then wasn't using fungicide, then tar spot could come in and rob 'em. So there's all these different things that, to me, influence yield at the end of the season. So I mean it's, I've seen all sorts of things, but to me, always the key driver is I'm looking for that yield response for you one way or another.
Sometimes nitrogen is not always the limiting nutrient, so we help guide you through some of that other stuff. But this is also where that replacement strategy, as we get you using Pivot with confidence, how do we then start to improve that ROI by replacing a synthetic source, maybe improving some logistical constraints, helping you identify hybrids that are gonna be more naturally responsive to this.
And one thing I've seen too is because we're giving these plants their own individual nitrogen source during that vegetative phase, you're building a lot of uniformity and consistency out in that field. To me, what that also does is it helps these plants grow at a more consistent pace.
And you'll see this in pictures, especially right at or a little bit later when ear heights are starting to see 'em, all the tassels are flowering it on the Pivot side a little bit more consistently. And then, like I said, the ear heights tend to be a little bit more uniform and locked in at a certain height.
And there's those visual cues. So then that tells me, okay, well what happens then if you are spraying a fungicide and insecticide on a field that has Pivot, how more effective is that product then going to work, to me, 'cause that's really something that I'm trying to coin the term a finisher.
We got things called starters. And what are those finisher products that guard yield at the end? Those are the things that I want to help work with you on, and even start to identify more myself as I, again, as I understand our product more. I need to start understanding everybody else's products out there, too, because we can start to stack them together really well, as well. So, I don't know if that answered that question or–I went off on a tangent.
Brian Kearney: No worries. I'm known for tangents. No, that, I think so. But I just did a podcast episode and had John Deere's historian on, and he wrote a book called Tractor Wars, which was awesome. And he was talking about how in there, like, farmers are not against technology in any way, shape, or form.
They actually really like technology, but only if it improves they're in cash flow. So what do you typically see as far as the cost to implement this program and then the outcome on the end, if it's done correctly?
Allen Parrish: Yeah. So, like that replacement strategy, usually we're very cost-competitive with your synthetic sources. So we're, essentially, you're not having to spend extra money on that. if you're doing that 40-pound replacement and you figure it in. We're usually same ballpark as, your in Hydrus and UAN sources, depending on–so like there's not a huge one, price point, but we also have a program called Innovator.
So if you do that replacement strategy, we work with some other companies that are trying to improve their carbon intensity scores, and so we can actually start to then pay money to growers for doing that, and that's one way. And then obviously, as an agronomist, my goal is to ultimately see more bushels produced at a more efficient rate.
So like that's, to me, my goal for you as an agronomist is we work together and build the reputation and the trust with you over time, and helping you see that. 'Cause to me, one thing, I don't want to see a grower do is put out his fall, maybe do some spring weed and feed, and then if he's doing a side dress, well, I'll just pull out sidedress.
It's like, no, I don't want you doing that. There's a reason you started to sidedress, 'cause that's, to me, your most efficient nitrogen source. So then, how do we start to realign that nitrogen program so you can start to see gains? To me, it's gonna be a whole lot easier and quicker for me to see a guy growing 230 bushel corn, getting him up to 250, than it is gonna be for someone to try to get a guy from 270 to 280. It's more, the rates of means can function and change. I've been in fields where, just helping remind a guy to maybe even check his planner at from time to time.
It's something, planter maintenance, tillage. I mean, you run in a field where you got compaction out there, and those are sometimes the real yield-limiting factors and but by scouting these fields and working with you, we can start to identify those things that will help improve your bottom line over time. And that's something I enjoy doing.
Landon Larkin: I'd like to add to that, too, like, just doing some research before this episode. UREA barge trades are at over $500 in New Orleans right now, so definitely something economically that farmers could look into this season as they get their cops on the ground from an ROI perspective, so.
Allen Parrish: Yeah. Especially for guys who do a lot of their own fertilizer application, I think there's gonna be that cost savings and lit gallons. You're gonna be spraying out there too. So, I mean, that's just, it's always sometimes hard to put a price on that 'cause I don't know what you're paying yourself,
Landon Larkin: Right, exactly.
Allen Parrish: If grandpa's paying you, you're probably getting paid 50 cents to do it, right? If you're doing it yourself and you have the other equipment costs tied to it, it's probably a higher value. So, and then obviously wear and tear you, and this is to me, where depending on location, if we can look at your nitrogen program, someone who's heavy on the fall but has two or three other nitrogen, timings also that he's doing, well maybe we can just get rid of that one timing, save you some costs there and reallocate those pounds to other timings as well to improve overall that efficiency. So there's a lot of different ways to slice that, and it gets really hard to say exactly what to do, 'cause everybody does something different. I haven't seen two growers who manage anything identically. So it's always those one-on-one conversations, with you and in one of our reps, who can help guide you through that and get you started.
Landon Larkin: And that kinda leads into my next question, is your network of agronomists? So, you talk about how you're doing a lot of trials with growers and stuff like that. What is, what does the agronomy assistance look like for your reps at Pivot Bio, and how can the farmer gain knowledge from working with you guys?
Allen Parrish: Yeah, so, we kinda have an independent rep network. We have some local retailers on, depending on your zone. Here in Illinois, I'm covering, essentially I-70 to I-80. And then we have a northern gra, Southern groms. And really it's you as a customer, wanting to find out more information so we can set up that one-on-one meeting with you, dig into your operation more, and then kind of come up with a plan.
I like to come up with, “Hey, if you're gonna test it this year. Here's a couple strategies to think about, to see the response you wanna see out of it.” 'Cause at the end of the day, it's like, I know our product works, but whenever I hear a grower say, “Well, does it work?” What you're asking for is, does it yield? And that's, to me, those aren't always necessarily the same thing because, if you get our microbes in the ground alive, they're gonna work. But if you want to see yield at the end of the season, if you're throwing us on top of 240 pounds of–nitrogen's not your limiting factor at times, and so how do we help you, say I wanna see a 10 bushel response at that level.
It's like, it's not how yield is made. Your weather's gonna trump your nitrogen program a lot of times. So, how do we then start to focus in on that NUE factor, how do we do that replacement strategy that's the most effective? That's not gonna cost you any bushels 'cause you robbed the wrong nitrogen Timing.
There's some something to be said about not just how much, but when you do it. And that's, to me, something I, the more I work with this product, the more it just becomes obvious how to stack these things. So you get that yield response you want at the end of the day, depending on the weather, catastrophe or disease, or whatever.
Brian Kearney: Yeah. No, that makes sense. This has been a really fun conversation. I like diving in. I learned a lot. which is always fun. Thank you both for taking the time to jump on here. Allen, what would you say is your kind of parting wisdom to farmers listening to this. Where do you think, or what types of farms do you think can benefit the most from reaching out to you and talking to Pivot?
Allen Parrish: I mean, obviously, every farmer can benefit, but I think that the real thing, for me, and this probably even goes for other products, if you're always swinging for the fences. With any product, I mean, how many product books do we have out there that, we get you three bushels here, five bushels there, 10 here, that, you're gonna miss out on and possibly throwing a product out from getting into your program if you aren't really asking the questions well, when is it working?
And then how can I evaluate that timeframe? And so, to me, I prefer you as a grower to be looking for base hits all the time rather than swinging for the fences and striking out. And then, to me, I'm more than happy to, work with growers, dig into their data at the end of the season, and help them understand, okay, how does that yield factor then work out?
'Cause sometimes it's not a, not a nitrogen limiting factor. How do we then address possibly some other deficiencies, and then kind of keep walking you up that yield ladder, and goal that you're after. And even, like I said, I kinda get to have a passion for looking at hybrids and those type of things.
Just 'cause I ran a nursery and did those things, other agronomists might like soil fertility more, or so it all depends. But we got a really great team of agronomists that'll be more than happy to sit down with growers and talk through all those, because it really gets down to be a one-on-one conversation, 'cause no two growers farm the same. No two fields are even remotely identical, and how they operate, and what I might have planned or think is gonna work for you just logistically isn't gonna work for you either. So, how do we find that balance of what is possible rather than idealistic?
Brian Kearney: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, we will leave a link in the show notes for people to reach out to you. Where would you like them to go? LinkedIn, email, website. What's easiest for you?
Allen Parrish: Really just pivotbio.com, talk to those reps, not just me. Hopefully, you got a wider audience. In our network, that can do a lot of the same things I can do for guys here in Illinois. So click on there, find that rep.
I'll give you my email to put on your website. So, guys here locally have questions or can reach out to me or phone number. I post stuff on X from time to time. I think it's AllenP08, so if anybody wants to follow me or something, I don't post a ton during the year, but during the summer, I post pictures and those types of things.
Brian Kearney: Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes as well.
Allen Parrish: So, but yeah, it's fun getting out there, traveling the state, finding all those mom and pop little diners that are nice to eat at.
Brian Kearney: Oh yeah. Perfect. Well, hey, thanks for your time. Great to see you again.
Allen Parrish: Yeah, thanks for having me. Look forward to doing it again sometime.
And that’s a wrap on this episode of The Land Ledger.
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